• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Women’s World Cup 2021

surfski

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Posts
147
Location
Austria
We hope she hasn’t lost it. She definitely didn’t have what she used to this season.
I don't know her obviously but from where I stand she cant lose it, what she has that got her to such elevated ability is still a part of her. What this season showed is that she is a member of the human race not a robot and given all it has been reported she has had to deal with this year what to me is remarkable are the results she still managed.
My hope for her is firstly that she has or does fully recover physically mentally and emotionally as much as one can and then if it is still her desire to ski race that there are no further issues getting in the way of her talent and innate abilities. I note her work ethic but allow all the athletes have to at this level.
In full flow to me her skiing is a thing of ease flow and beauty, but isn't this how all those who are great at a thing make it look 'easy' no matter the activity.
 
Last edited:

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
Pass Pulled
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,338
Wow.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,936
Location
Maine
Okay, so I've been avoiding this thread for like a month because I am always behind on watching the races.
Congrats to Alice Robinson on a stellar victory! Shiffrin was great but that second run from Robinson was full-on money. And Hrovat really skied well to round out that podium.
Totally. The thing with Hrovat's first run was that all the other skiers seemed to be on their back foot, just trying to keep it together on that apparently very difficult course. They hardly looked like they were racing. Meanwhile Meta was just squeezing every turn for all it was worth, hands forward all the time like it was nothing. And the Robinson run was just pure furious "get the hell out of my way" energy.
Bassino said in the post interview, English, that Lenzerheide was special because she started her World Cup there in 2014, and it was the last race for Italian Denise Karbon who retired. Karbon won the gs title in 2008.
Wasn't there something also about Deborah Compagnoni?
I don’t follow Nordic, but this is unusual and impressive. Jesse Diggins becomes the first American woman to win overall worldcup title. She also won the distance title.

Of course you hear nothing about it, and it’s actually hard to find a decent video.
Um, all the races are on Peacock, James. If you have to pick one, watch the last race of the Tour de Ski series where Ebba Andersson leads Diggins up the slope at an alpine area (no kidding) to the race finish.
I haven't followed this thread super closely so forgive me if this has already been posted.
Vlhova's coach apologizes
Like Steve said: Wow. Translation: Petra is not short and cute and blonde.
 

Rudi Riet

AKA songfta AKA randomduck - a USSS coach, as well
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
2,477
Location
Washington, DC
Like Steve said: Wow. Translation: Petra is not short and cute and blonde.

If Magioni were coaching a U.S. racer and said anything like that he's be out the door so quickly that the return spring would barely start to do its work. The machismo he thinks is so "endearing" is from a bygone era.

Yeesh. I wouldn't employ the guy on my coaching staff, success or not. His PR is toxic.

Just my $0.02...
 

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,498
Location
Slovenia, Europe
@Rudi Riet you are probably right, about "he's be out the door so quickly that the return spring would barely start to do its work" but thing is, he said what it would need to be said, yet noone says it anymore, as nowadays we all need to be PC and never say anything what someone might not like. Personally I don't really give a shit about this PC stuff (I guess you might have notice this by now :D), and say what it needs to be said. Luckily I'm in position, even professionally, where I can afford that, and if someone doesn't like it, it's their problem.
In this case, Livio said things that might not sound great, especially when talking about overall globe winner, but thing is, he is completely right with most of stuff. Now if he should say it or not, is different thing, but in my mind he should. Maybe not in public and maybe not exactly this way, but if you keep this to yourself, because your racer might not like it, then there's very little space for improvement.
And yes, believe it or not, it's happening big time, also on WC tour. Coaches are scared or "scared" of telling "bad" things to racers, so that someone won't be upset, so instead of improving those "bad" things with more training focusing on those issues, they tuck them away, and train stuff where racers are good, as it's "more productive to tell race he had great run", then point out his/her mistakes and concentrating on improving them. Regardless how it sounds, it's really standard practice.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,936
Location
Maine
In this case, Livio said things that might not sound great, especially when talking about overall globe winner, but thing is, he is completely right with most of stuff. Now if he should say it or not, is different thing, but in my mind he should.
There is also the question of when. She just won the World Cup overall. Some of his criticism seems to be about the way she presents off the hill. I'd say, Lead by example, dude.
 

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,498
Location
Slovenia, Europe
@Tony S true. Timing is not really great, but do you think Corriere della Sera would care enough about skiing in middle of May to publish interview with Magoni? In case someone wonders, no they would not. Corriere is not sport newspaper, and even if it would be, one month after end of skiing World cup, only thing that matters in Italy is football, and maybe, since it would be May, Giro. Skiing hardly matters in middle of winter, and in off season it doesn't even exists for Italian media (except for some local papers from Sudtirol).
Another thing is, Magoni is not really noname. He's coach that pretty much made Vlhova what she is now. When he took his job with Vlhova, she was in WC for I think 2 seasons, with mostly DNF and DNQ2 as results. In less then year with him, she started to quite regularly finish races on podium. His past references also include Maze (also during her record season), so it's not like he wouldn't know what he's talking about.
 

Average Joe

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
Posts
555
I haven't followed this thread super closely so forgive me if this has already been posted.
Vlhova's coach apologizes
The interview of the Italian speaking coach was conducted by Veronika Pullmanova, a Slovakian(?), and was printed in (?) a Slovakian magazine or newspaper, then clarifications spoken in Italian and translated again into Slovak, then translated into English for an American magazine.
One wonders if the context and language of his original comments and subsequent translations are what is being disseminated in the US and Slovakian media.
 

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,498
Location
Slovenia, Europe
@Average Joe core issue here is Magoni's interview for Corriere della Sera. Italian coach giving interview for Italian newspaper... I guess in Italian but you can never be sure nowadays. This interview or article Veronika wrote was "to cool things down", but original issue was interview in Corriere della Sera where Veronika had nothing to do with it.
 
Thread Starter
TS
4ster

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,256
Location
Sierra & Wasatch
She hasn’t lost it. Others have found it and have improved and in some cases surpassed her. That always happens - nothing lasts forever!
I agree that she (Shiffrin) hasn't lost it & while others have certainly stepped it up I don't think Shiffrin skied close to her peak this season, even when she won.
I went back & looked at her skiing from past seasons & to my eye there is a huge difference. Whether it is her setup, training, mental attitude, conditioning, technique or tactics I think she probably has the capacity to reach even new levels even for the great champion she is. Just look at how Gut-Berhrami came on at the end of the season. Mikaela is only 26yo.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
Mikaela has not "lost it," or close. And no, others have not closed the gap, other than, IMO Liensberger. And of course Bassino just owned GS last season. However.....it was no "normal season" for MS. To finish as well as she did is a pretty good indication of what she can bring. She had almost now preseason prep blocks, and on top of it was an emotional mess. Training blocks are cumulative. You build on them through out the season. Mikaela was behind the eight ball all season. She is the hardest worker in the sport for good reason. It works for her.

Her head coach. Mike Day, and others have made the comments that in training, as the season progressed, Mikaela was just as fast as she has ever been....maybe faster. I am hearing that the skis being made for her, right now for next season are very special. The average SL set on the W's WC was quite a bit different and did not really favor MS. They were, to make it simple, pretty straight down the fall line, and minimal swing. And the biggest factor, was in her head. She is probably the hardest worker on the WC. She trains harder and trains more volume than anybody else. That training and repetitive work is what makes her who she is. It's not some magical touch on the snow and that sort of thing. At the risk of being very redundant, that did not happen this season.

I hear that she is heading back with a ton of energy and drive. She has a lot to prove. She is not the type, not is her team, her mom, Kili, her agent to lash out at some of what has appeared in the press. But, I hear from close mutual friends that she is "pissed off" at a lot of the commentary and is totally "In" in returning with her domination. She knows that she was skiing well at the end of the season, fast. And that she was NOT competing well, and not racing as she can. She needs to get that back, and I suspect that she will. She is a totally different place in April 2021 than she was year ago. I say, bring it on. And I am not typically a huge MS fan boy.

The fact that she is 26 is a great point, and one often forgotten. I suspect this will be a big year.

I do not know what to think about Vhlova, and what to expect moving forward. I've seen her compete {and practice} since she and MS were young teens, in the Trofeo Topolino, and Whistler Cup. Later at WJC's. They have been racing against each other for years, and generally MS always seemed to be in her head. Now, this is just some hearsay from a bunch of athlete conversations, but it sounds to me, from ladies and coaches there, that PV is not all that well liked. MS has become quite well liked as she has gotten older. I also think that few people are "neutral" about Livio Magoni. People seem to shrug their shoulders or have nothing great to say. But I do think that when MS is on top of her game, she takes up a lot of space in PV's head.

This was obviously a very long, very different, very strange season for everybody with, and supporting PV. Yes, Magoni's "plan" did deliver, barely. And PV was by all accounts on fumes at the end. Piling up points as she could. To her huge credit, she did what she had to do to win the globe.

I just wonder how next season unfolds for her. Read Tina Maze's comments about her record breaking season, with Magoni, and how she feels it effectively ended her career make me think. Complete exhaustion, etc. I have NO idea.

I hope hat COVID is not a factor next season, and I'm looking for some great racing from all of the women. I do think that MS will be at the top of the heap. Will be interesting to see if either MS of PH starts a DH.....as an aside. Thinking no.
 
Last edited:

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,988
I hear that she is heading back with a ton of energy and drive. She has a lot to prove.
That sounds good. I really don’t know what the press has been saying, especially in Europe. In general it’s always, “what have you done lately?”
The big question this year has definitely been does she want to continue with this racing life? She’s been on the wcup what, 11 years? That’s a long time to be relevant at a high level.

I guess the question has been is she where Hirscher was at 29? But, since the Olympics are coming up next year, and since the US public only cares about Olympics, maybe that is an extra bit of motivation. Not sure many have won gold in three different Olympics in skiing. Can’t be many.

The big difference we saw this year was fairly frequent giving up of first run leads, and not having her usual last third of course turbo mode where she puts people away.

I can’t see her hanging on after the point she knows she’s done. I think she’s more aware than most on what point that is. I hope she realizes she doesn’t owe anyone anything in terms of continuing racing.
 
Last edited:

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
@James,

I think that you that you may well be both over-thinking this, and jumping to a conclusion or two.

I would start by NOT comparing the wear and tear on her body and head compared with Hirscher. MH had to throw down, with incredible effort and such to produce his results. Not that this has been, previously, "easy" for Mikaela, but it was different. When Marcel was 27-28 he was telling close friends that "I will not be doing this at 30." Hirscher was also expected to be a major WC fixture very early on. And the pressure of the Austrian Flag, and of Atomic...huge. No sure how much fun he ever truly had.

What I hear is that MS's drive, and plans to just be dominant this coming season are all for the most part internally driven. Her expectations.

Yes, people on here, who I don't believe coach or work on the WC, or really know those who do....and probably do NOT know these athletes well keep talking about bull shit like her lack of killer instinct, the fact that she did not just crush it when leading after the first run, etc. Once again, I would urge folks to look at some of the details. One is the course sets. It's not like MS hit the last third of a set, or the flats, carrying extreme heat because she skied the top of a demanding course so much better than anybody else. My hunch is that we'll see her doing JUST fine this coming season. Could be the some of the crew who really know her well and who were on her team when she was winning by 2-3 second margins are back in the fold. Dunno.

I DO KNOW that Mike Day says she is as fast as she has ever been, and that would mean faster than anybody else. I really don't think that this past year there was any real goal or pressure to do much of anything result wise. I think it was to get back on snow, feel comfortable and strong, and get it back. It'spretty amazing to see how she was skiing in March, considering where she was NOT in December.

I don't know about her back. Back injuries suck in this sport. I don't know the full extent of her injury. Lots of opinions and questions about that. All good now, I believe.

Right now, she can get some time on snow, test some skis, and then plan for some rest.....

She'll be back. Meanwhile the PV "infighting" sounds not that great. And I have ZERO insight about Liensberger. Just none. I remember seeing her when she was 17-18 and every single Austrian skier in that training group looked the same, was the same size, skied the same, etc. She surely has risen to the top! Great skier.

MS is a very tough competitor. We'll see.

Just my $.02. I am not concerned. I think we'll see her for a while.....mainly because SHE ENJOYS her job!
 
Last edited:

Swede

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Posts
2,393
Location
Sweden
That sounds good. I really don’t know what the press has been saying, especially in Europe. In general it’s always, “what have you done lately?”
The big question this year has definitely been does she want to continue with this racing life? She’s been on the wcup what, 11 years? That’s a long time to be relevant at a high level.

I guess the question has been is she where Hirscher was at 29? But, since the Olympics are coming up next year, and since the US public only cares about Olympics, maybe that is an extra bit of motivation. Not sure many have won gold in three different Olympics in skiing. Can’t be many.

The big difference we saw this year was fairly frequent giving up of first run leads, and not having her usual last third of course turbo mode where she puts people away.

I can’t see her hanging on after the point she knows she’s done. I think she’s more aware than most on what point that is. I hope she realizes she doesn’t owe anyone anything in terms of continuing racing.

Last thing I saw and heard of MS after LH, she was super motivated, happy and was going to ”hit the slopes and train”, also talking about that she didn’t nail it in SL as she had been doing previous seasons. So I figure the confusion that was part of this season will be gone 21/22. I am also looking forward to a pissed off and hungry ASL being back in the starthaus.
 

Primoz

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
2,498
Location
Slovenia, Europe
Vlhova and Magoni are going separate ways. I don't think that interview is reason for this, but in my opinion, interview was most likely result of all the stuff in last 5 years, and decision for not continuing was there before this interview. We will see how Vlhova will handle new coach (and vice versa) and what will be results of this change.
 
Thread Starter
TS
4ster

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,256
Location
Sierra & Wasatch
Vlhova and Magoni are going separate ways. I don't think that interview is reason for this, but in my opinion, interview was most likely result of all the stuff in last 5 years, and decision for not continuing was there before this interview. We will see how Vlhova will handle new coach (and vice versa) and what will be results of this change.


Sometimes restructuring is what it takes to reach new heights even if it means dropping a notch first.
Time will .tell
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,988
Anyone have an English link to the original interview of Magoni?
It’s got to be pretty bad, but so far it sounds like a bad translation of the equivalent of saying Shiffrin isn’t the greatest natural athlete.

Um, all the races are on Peacock, James. If you have to pick one, watch the last race of the Tour de Ski series where Ebba Andersson leads Diggins up the slope at an alpine area (no kidding) to the race finish.
No, a video of the story of her winning the globe. All the ones I saw were quite poor.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top