Comparing the 2024 Boa Boots Offerings from Atomic, Fischer, K2 and Salomon

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Let me jump into the questions that are more or less factual:
5. The BOA cable doesn't unwind when the BOA dial comes off its baseplate, so the amount of dangle that will actually happen isn't enough to get caught under your ski. It will be equal to the length of cable coming out of dial and going to the first deviation point (couple of centimeters).
6. Internal gearing is fully metal (not plastic like snowboard or bike versions, which also mean no gear slipping), the stainless cable is has a tensile strength of 250+kg. But even if it wears out or breaks for any reason whatsoever, you'll get free replacements for life.
7. There is no need to "send anything in" for repair. If any part breaks or doesn't work correctly, any shop that sell BOA boots will provide you with free parts. BOA themselves will deliver parts to you within 48 hours of a problem. There are no proprietary tools required for changing out any of the BOA parts and swapping out any parts is far easier than changing a riveted-on buckle.

If the thought of BOA breaking and ruining your day is so paramount, then you can always buy a replacement system/part in advance to have as a spare in order to ensure that you don't miss an hour of skiing. I honestly wouldn't dream of taking my mountain bike on any sort of holiday trip without certain spare parts. There's no way local shops would stock my specific derailleur hanger or shock mount bolt. If any of those parts broke, my holiday would be seriously delayed, possibly ruined (I'm not renting) so it's on me to be prepared to keep things going.

5. Yes I understand this completely. But it appears there's still about 4-6 inches of unwound cable, depending how much you've wound the cable, from the first deviation point. Whether the dial will touch the snow depends on the edge angle. On a standing position, it appears it won't dangle past below the base of boot or top of binding level, so it is "safe". But if you are at an angle, it might. Somebody mathematically inclined could probably do the calculation for us. Will a 4-6 inch dangler touch the snow if the ski is at an angle of, say, 45 degrees?

6. The metal parts weren't my concern, but the plastic housing of the metal dial and the plastic interface on the boot that clicks to the dial. From experience, parts that click into place that are plastic can be prone to wear or breakage.

7. I just realised now why it is "triggering" for me to have to send a boot in for warranty. The boot is the foundation of my ski days. It is the rock from which I built this hobby. Everything rises and emanates from the ski boot. To have to send it away is tantamount cutting of my limb. While I wait for doctors to sew it back on, I will be useless.

This is so because a ski boot is custom. There's no replacement for it.

For this season, my jacket, pants, and ski will be (semi) custom as well. But with those, if they ever get damaged, the manufacturer could just ring up my customisations in my profile and they can manufacture the replacement and ship it to me and it will be close to the same as my damaged jacket/pants/ski. And I could compromise with a temporary cheapo jacket and pants and it wouldn't ruin my ski day. For the ski, it would probably be triggering, but I can just take the opportunity to demo other skis while waiting for a warranty replacement.

With the boot, there's no compromise, replacement or substitute. And if the bootmaker has to recreate my customisations, it will be more physically involved as I have to be at the boot shop going through the motions of the tedious bootfitting process again.

Your suggestion to just buy a spare cable/dial/deviation point is well and good. But can I buy a spare ski-boot-clicky-interface? I still don't know how the dial/boot-click- interface works and if anybody has the answer let us know. Is the plastic interface (that clicks into the dial) a part of the boot mold? Or is it screwed-on part that is replaceable in case it gets chipped or damaged?

 

[BLiP]

compared to all the other comedian replies to the dangler

If you’re going to refer to it as “the dangler” or “dangler safety,” you deserve to have some good natured jokes directed your way.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

If you’re going to refer to it as “the dangler” or “dangler safety,” you deserve to have some good natured jokes directed your way.

Next time I see one at the resort I will call it as such. Hey mate you've popped your dangler! Have some self-respect and put that 4-incher back in!

 

[KingGrump]

But have you skied with the robots ?

No, never skied with one. Though I have slept with several in the past.

 

[James]

But can I buy a spare ski-boot-clicky-interface?

It’s all part of the Boa. Having each boot have to have that would be a senseless cost and a failure point. Part of the appeal is Boa came in and said “we’ll take care of everything”.
It’s essentially an auto win for everyone except the end users. For them it’s “how bad could it be?”

The boot people mold the shell with space for the t nuts and a protective ramp and flat spot for the tensioner device. It’s not that different than moulding the shell for buckles.

https://www.powder.com/gear-locker/breaking-down-new-boa

 

[Philpug]

I will therefore avoid this technology like the plague...

And yet you are still lamenting about it.

 

[James]

He’s got Boa written all over. This time next year, he’ll have a Boa tattoo.

 

[Tricia]

If that does not make your brain explode, I do not know what will.

You have feet and a brain,

Whoa! Wait! What? Feet and a brain?
....mind blown!

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

It’s all part of the Boa. Having each boot have to have that would be a senseless cost and a failure point. Part of the appeal is Boa came in and said “we’ll take care of everything”.
It’s essentially an auto win for everyone except the end users. For them it’s “how bad could it be?”

The boot people mold the shell with space for the t nuts and a protective ramp and flat spot for the tensioner device. It’s not that different than moulding the shell for buckles.

View attachment 201315

https://www.powder.com/gear-locker/breaking-down-new-boa

Thanks for this this crystallises for me that this is a needlessly complicated contraption with many possible points of failure for a "problem" that's not really a big deal.

I am now on Otto's side and starting to hate this shit with a passion.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

He’s got Boa written all over. This time next year, he’ll have a Boa tattoo.

LOL ok. It's not like a Pfizer AZ Moderna vaccine certificate tattoo type of situation. It's a nothing device of no consequence. Although, I am now steering to the side of the anti-Boas.

And yet you are still lamenting about it.

I was just being nice to nerdykid he took the time to compose a message and I was glib with my initial reply.

I tried to be open minded about it but I have now made up my mind that I am an anti-Boa.

 

[Tony Storaro]

It’s all part of the Boa. Having each boot have to have that would be a senseless cost and a failure point. Part of the appeal is Boa came in and said “we’ll take care of everything”.
It’s essentially an auto win for everyone except the end users. For them it’s “how bad could it be?”

The boot people mold the shell with space for the t nuts and a protective ramp and flat spot for the tensioner device. It’s not that different than moulding the shell for buckles.

View attachment 201315

https://www.powder.com/gear-locker/breaking-down-new-boa

Ah, that’s much better. Even for me-not known for his mastery with the power drill or any other tool for that matter this does not look too complicated. Looks easily replaceable and the “how do we grind this” concern is kinda put to rest.
Is it just me or is the plastic indeed on the thin side?

 

[Tony Storaro]

Thanks for this this crystallises for me that this is a needlessly complicated contraption with many possible points of failure for a "problem" that's not really a big deal.

I am now on Otto's side and starting to hate this shit with a passion.

How can you hate something you haven’t even seen let alone used?

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

How can you hate something you haven’t even seen let alone used?

Hating is like one of the easiest thing to do in the world bro what are you wondering about?

The dangler is easy to hate. The inelegance of it. Not just from dangling, but the ugliness of the whole contraption, from the protruding knob all the way to the snaking cable. It's just so incongruent to the design language of the whole of a ski boot. It has mutiple possible points of failure while at the same time have a single point of failure (the knob click interface).

Makes you appreciate the simplicity, elegance and timelessness of the 4 buckle design.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Hating is like one of the easiest thing to do in the world bro what are you wondering about?

The dangler is easy to hate. The inelegance of it. Not just from dangling, but the ugliness of the whole contraption, from the protruding knob all the way to the snaking cable. It's just so incongruent to the design language of the whole of a ski boot. It has mutiple possible points of failure while at the same time have a single point of failure (the knob click interface).

Makes you appreciate the simplicity, elegance and timelessness of the 4 buckle design.

Ah if you take stand on aesthetics, I am with you, it IS ugly but I am not sure about multiple points of failure. Clog is the area with very little tension/load compared to the cuff so no, I do not expect the system will fail too often.
Even the plastic BOA on cycling shoes does not fail often and this is metal.

Don’t worry you’ll be quite safe with your new shiny BOA boots.

 

[Wasatchman]

I know you think you are in the best boot. Are you sure? Do you really know or you just think you do?

It's really hard to know for sure if you're in the best boot. How many can say they've honestly tried every boot on the rack? And you can't really demo boots.

Furthermore there are various tradeoffs. One of my feet is a bit wider than the other which is not that uncommon apparently. My favorite boot works for me right out of the box at a 100 last. And it works nicely for me. Now I could go 97 last in that model but have to do boot work and potentially quite a few back and forth tweaks to ultimately make it work. This could ultimately be better than my still good out of the box fit at 100 last, but it would be costlier and a lot riskier that it ultimately does not work out. Since I'm not skiing professionally, I feel like if my boot is comfortable and gives me the performance I feel I need, then that is good enough to happily settle for the easy route out of the box. To this day, I've never worked with a boot fitter that gives me a result that works better for me than my out of the box fit with my favorite boots. And I'm lucky to have found something that works so well for me out of the box. That's not the case for many.

Finally, to have the best boot would more or less require a quiver of different boots. The ideal boot for mostly off piste, lots of hike to terrain, park sessions, and groomer days are all going to be different.

It's hard enough for someone like me to get it mostly right and I live by the mountains and ski much more than most people are able to, with above average time and resources. Add in the fact that different reputable boot fitters have given me different advice (sometimes remarkably different and seemingly contradictory) and it's daunting to say the least. And not every bootfitter is going to be honest and say you know what, we don't carry what I think will work best for you.

I may be wrong here, but given the daunting challenges I note above,, I am of the opinion that for your average recreational skier, I think they're doing fantastic if their boots are merely pretty good.

If anyone here has some salient advice, beyond the standard "go see a reputable bootfitter" then I am all ears.

 

[Philpug]

The overlords behind BOA are not the not the first to make outlandish claims in a product, we all know that. I have more of a problem with ads that claim "the most comfortable boot" or "Best in test" boots or "Boot of the year", those are marketing claims that can be more damaging. Yes, there are boots that are better built with higher quality liners and that are bootfitter friendly and yes the boots offered today are much better shaped ... shaped more like a foot as compared to the box they came in but I still think we have a ways to go on better quality boots, especially on the softer and or in the entry level range.

Boot measurements need to get adjusted, using "lasts" based upon the easiest part of the boot to work on, the forefoot area should be changed to measuring the vamp area around the instep, this is something Salomon did back when they first started building boots, a method before its time. Mondo sizing also needs to be more truthful in that with some of these modern plastics are allowing for thinner walls making the interior volume of the boot larger, a 26 is no longer a 27 and can be close to a centimeter longer in some cases.

I do commend Evo for adjusting their on line sizer for purchases in adding a "Performance Fit" column but even the word "Comfort" in the first column can be perceived incorrectly when a performance fit can actually be more confortable for some. But this is a start.

Evo Ski Boot Size Chart​

Mondopoint (Comfort Fit)	Mondopoint (Performance Fit)	Men / Unisex (US)	Women (US)	Europe	UK
15	-	8 (Kids')	-	25	7
15.5	-	8 (Kids')	-	25	7
16	-	9 (Kids'	-	26	8
16.5	-	9 (Kids')	-	26	8
17	-	10 (Kids')	-	27	9
17.5	-	11 (Kids')	-	28	10
18.5	-	12 (Kids')	-	29	11
19.5	-	13 (Kids')	-	30.5	12
20	-	13.5 (Kids')	-	31	13
20.5	-	1	-	32	13.5
21	-	2	-	33	1
21.5	-	3	-	34	2
22	21	4	5	35	3
22.5	21.5	4.5	5.5	3.5	3.5
23	22	5	6	36.5	4
23.5	22.5	5.5	6.5	37	4.5
24	23	6	7	38	5
24.5	23.5	6.5	7.5	38.5	5.5
25	24	7	8	39	6
25.5	24.5	7.5	8.5	40	6.5
26	25	8	9	40.5	7
26.5	25.5	8.5	9.5	41	7.5
27	26	9	10	42	8
27.5	26.5	9.5	10.5	42.5	8.5
28	27	10	11	43	9
28.5	27.5	10.5	11.5	44	9.5
29	28	11	12	44.5	10
29.5	28.5	11.5	-	45	10.5
30	29	12	-	45.6	11
30.5	29.5	12.5	-	46	11.5
31	30	13	-	47	12
31.5	30.5	13.5	-	47.7	12.5
32	31	14	-	48	13
32.5	31.5	14.5	-	48.5	13.5
33	32	15	-	49	14
33.5	32.5	15.5	-	50	14.5
34	33	16	-	51	15

As far as we have come, we still have a long way to go. SkiTalk are lucky to have contributors like @onenerdykid , @otto and @cem here. We do ask that you don't abuse the privilege of having them here.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

It's really hard to know for sure if you're in the best boot. How many can say they've honestly tried every boot on the rack? And you can't really demo boots.

Furthermore there are various tradeoffs. One of my feet is a bit wider than the other which is not that uncommon apparently. My favorite boot works for me right out of the box at a 100 last. And it works nicely for me. Now I could go 97 last in that model but have to do boot work and potentially quite a few back and forth tweaks to ultimately make it work. This could ultimately be better than my still good out of the box fit at 100 last, but it would be costlier and a lot riskier that it ultimately does not work out. Since I'm not skiing professionally, I feel like if my boot is comfortable and gives me the performance I feel I need, then that is good enough to happily settle for the easy route out of the box. To this day, I've never worked with a boot fitter that gives me a result that works better for me than my out of the box fit with my favorite boots. And I'm lucky to have found something that works so well for me out of the box. That's not the case for many.

Finally, to have the best boot would more or less require a quiver of different boots. The ideal boot for mostly off piste, lots of hike to terrain, park sessions, and groomer days are all going to be different.

It's hard enough for someone like me to get it mostly right and I live by the mountains and ski much more than most people are able to, with above average time and resources. Add in the fact that different reputable boot fitters have given me different advice (sometimes remarkably different and seemingly contradictory) and it's daunting to say the least. And not every bootfitter is going to be honest and say you know what, we don't carry what I think will work best for you.

I may be wrong here, but given the daunting challenges I note above,, I am of the opinion that for your average recreational skier, I think they're doing fantastic if their boots are merely pretty good.

If anyone here has some salient advice, beyond the standard "go see a reputable bootfitter" then I am all ears.

Criticising boot fitters is a third rail in skitalk. That's a no no.

Boot fitting is an unregulated industry. There's a whole gamut of boot fitters from reputable ones to pimply 18 year olds. You can get the best or worst fit or anything in between from both depending on your "feels".

Don't care about the average recreational skiers (ARS). They benefit me as a Gripwalk adherent. Gripwalk is made for the ARS and it's "infecting" the race-inspired boot category, which I like. Hardcore racers hate it. So ARS are useful to me in this regard.

Boa is also made for the ARS. But I don't like Boa. So the ARS is a liability for me in this one.

The ski industry is like any industry in a capitalist society. They can provide for your needs and also the needs of the people or things you don't care about. The capitalist system can fill the whole gamut and spectrum of consumer needs, so don't worry about the ARS.

Worry about YOUR needs. That's what I do.

The average poster in skitalk, and the internet in general, is biased. They shit on the stuff they like and push for the stuff they like. Just take it all in stride and good humour.

 

[TheArchitect]

And yet you are still lamenting about it.

Exactly. I don't get it.

 

[TheArchitect]

LOL ok. It's not like a Pfizer AZ Moderna vaccine certificate tattoo type of situation. It's a nothing device of no consequence. Although, I am now steering to the side of the anti-Boas.


I was just being nice to nerdykid he took the time to compose a message and I was glib with my initial reply.

I tried to be open minded about it but I have now made up my mind that I am an anti-Boa.

The product isn't available to consumers yet and you've made up your mind. Very open-minded of you.

Hating is like one of the easiest thing to do in the world bro what are you wondering about?

The dangler is easy to hate. The inelegance of it. Not just from dangling, but the ugliness of the whole contraption, from the protruding knob all the way to the snaking cable. It's just so incongruent to the design language of the whole of a ski boot. It has mutiple possible points of failure while at the same time have a single point of failure (the knob click interface).

Makes you appreciate the simplicity, elegance and timelessness of the 4 buckle design.

Dunno, maybe we're wondering why you seem to feel the need to clutter a board with hate posts for a product that you have no intention of ever using (based on speculation and no experience with)?

The ski industry is like any industry in a capitalist society. They can provide for your needs and also the needs of the people or things you don't care about. The capitalist system can fill the whole gamut and spectrum of consumer needs, so don't worry about the ARS.

Worry about YOUR needs. That's what I do.

The average poster in skitalk, and the internet in general, is biased. They shit on the stuff they like and push for the stuff they like. Just take it all in stride and good humour.

And yet you keep posting on something you have no interest in. Maybe let others worry about their needs and not tell us about your speculation-based hate?

The average poster on SkiTalk does NOT shit of stuff they don't like. You haven't been paying very close attention to how this population interacts. This board has different opinions but we treat each other with respect while discussing those differences.

 

[onenerdykid]

Boa is also made for the ARS. But I don't like Boa. So the ARS is a liability for me in this one.

While BOA can certainly be used by the ARS (like buckles can), BOA definitely did not create it for them specifically. BOA truly thinks they are making the best closure system ever, full stop.

Opinions on that last claim aside for a moment, our ex-racers & freeski athletes genuinely love it. Daron Rahlves, Benni Reich, Chris Benchetler, Sage Catabriga Alosa, Nick McNutt won’t switch back to the buckle version of Hawx Ultra XTD. Yes, these are paid athletes but all of them have the option to take the same boot with buckles and they don’t want it. It would be a mistake to think that BOA is an ARS user group only product.