Comparing the 2024 Boa Boots Offerings from Atomic, Fischer, K2 and Salomon

[Rich_Ease_3051]

The product isn't available to consumers yet and you've made up your mind. Very open-minded of you.

Do you watch all the movies that are released? Do you buy all the newly released phones? Do you take all the vaccines on the schedule? The average person can only afford one house and a few cars in their lifetime. Can he buy a hundred varieties of houses and cars? Does he sample all the cereals in the cereal aisle? Should he book all the resorts in North America? Eat in all the restaurants? Sample all the cuisines from all cultures?

No? But how does he decide on what's appropriate for him if he hasn't sampled everything? Does the limitation of economics make him "closed minded"? Should he not have an opinion on something that he cannot afford? Should he form the opinion first then buy it? Or buy it first then form his opinion?

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Yes, these are paid athletes

Stop right there.

 

[onenerdykid]

Stop right there.

When has being a paid athlete prevented said athlete from using the product that they want? Hello, Marcel?

They literally have access to a non-BOA option and don’t take it.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

When has being a paid athlete prevented said athlete from using the product that they want? Hello, Marcel?

They literally have access to a non-BOA option and don’t take it.

I think there's a whole spectrum of athletes who take money. From those who believe the product and get paid for it to those who abhor the product but will happily shill for it for the money and everything in between. And that's fine.

 

[onenerdykid]

I think there's a whole spectrum of athletes who take money. From those who believe the product and get paid for it to those who abhor the product but will happily shill for it for the money. That's fine.

Doesn’t work in skiing, especially boots. If you think you are anal about this topic, I implore you to get into a boot discussion with a professional athlete whose career depends on their ski doing what their foot tells it.

 

[Philpug]

Do you watch all the movies that are released? Do you buy all the newly released phones? Do you take all the vaccines on the schedule? The average person can only afford one house and a few cars in their lifetime. Can he buy a hundred varieties of houses and cars? Does he sample all the cereals in the cereal aisle? Should he book all the resorts in North America? Eat in all the restaurants? Sample all the cuisines from all cultures?

No? But how does he decide on what's appropriate for him if he hasn't sampled everything? Does the limitation of economics make him "closed minded"? Should he not have an opinion on something that he cannot afford? Should he form the opinion first then buy it? Or buy it first then form his opinion?

But a "fair minded person" does not pan these with out trying them an opinion with actual facts and experience verses here say or knee jerk reactions. You seem to completely dismiss something without ever trying it first.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Doesn’t work in skiing, especially boots. If you think you are anal about this topic, I implore you to get into a boot discussion with a professional athlete whose career depends on their ski doing what their foot tells it.

LOL are you effing serious right now? This forum is replete with rumours of world cup athletes who use boots and liners that are not their sponsors' and cover them up with paint and stickers. And WC athletes who fall of the rankings because they're forced to use gear and equipment from their sponsors that are detrimental to their performance.

 

[Ken_R]

Race boot ... race boot ... race boot... How can it be any good and know it it really works unless they use in on a race boot. What does it matter if its used on a race boot? How do racers close their lower buckles? The clamp them down with a ton of pressure. Well that goes againt everything we say for a good/proper fit of a boot, the lower buckles just need to be finger tight. Does that mean racers are in ill fitting boots? No. Can the BOA be tightened for a racer, sure. Oh ... you will boot out with the snow hitting the BOA knob. Sorry, wrong again. Racers will hit a traditional buckle on a high edge angle well before the BOA.

The whole arguement that it isn't viable because its not used on race boots is laughable. What are the most popular bindings today, Look Pivot, Marker Squire/Griffon/Jester, Tyrolia Attack and Salomon Sth/warden/Strive, what do all of these have in common? Thats right, none are used in race applications (Yes, I know some were, but not in todays environment). Sorry to rant but that is the question that comes up here and other social media groups/sites by the luddites and it's completely irrelevant, there is a ton of great products out there that have zero race influence or are race derived.

With all that said, I hear there are some brands playing with BOA on their race shells

Race it on Sunday buy it on Monday.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

But a "fair minded person" does not pan these with out trying them an opinion with actual facts and experience verses here say or knee jerk reactions. You seem to completely dismiss something without ever trying it first.

Should homo economicus, the economic man, form his opinion first then buy the product? Or buy the product first then form his opinion?

 

[bbinder]

I think that the economic man tries the product, then forms an opinion, then buys the product.

I try on clothes - buy the ones that fit my body and my style
I try on shoes - buy the ones that are most comfortable and fit the use I am looking for
I test drive cars - I don't even think about buying the ones I don't like
I look at all the televisions in the store before deciding which one to buy
I listen to audio speakers and then decide which ones I want to take home.
I demo skis - buy the ones I like
I try on ski boots - buy the ones that fit the best for the performance that I want with the features that I am looking for.

You get the picture... I certainly don't hate the ones I reject. They are simply not for me.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Do you watch all the movies that are released? Do you buy all the newly released phones? Do you take all the vaccines on the schedule? The average person can only afford one house and a few cars in their lifetime. Can he buy a hundred varieties of houses and cars? Does he sample all the cereals in the cereal aisle? Should he book all the resorts in North America? Eat in all the restaurants? Sample all the cuisines from all cultures?

No? But how does he decide on what's appropriate for him if he hasn't sampled everything? Does the limitation of economics make him "closed minded"? Should he not have an opinion on something that he cannot afford? Should he form the opinion first then buy it? Or buy it first then form his opinion?

Man, please, this is getting silly… It is just a different closure system for goddamn ski boots, not the end of the world, FFS...

 

[onenerdykid]

LOL are you effing serious right now? This forum is replete with rumours of world cup athletes who use boots and liners that are not their sponsors' and cover them up with paint and stickers. And WC athletes who fall of the rankings because they're forced to use gear and equipment from their sponsors that are detrimental to their performance.

Dude, this is literally the point I am making - they won't use gear that prevents them from succeeding. They will use what works, even if that means jumping sponsors and busting out the spray paint. They don't have time nor patience to be a shill for a product that doesn't work. If a better option exists within the sponsor's offer, they will move to it.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Dude, this is literally the point I am making - they won't use gear that prevents them from succeeding. They will use what works, even if that means jumping sponsors and busting out the spray paint. They don't have time nor patience to be a shill for a product that doesn't work. If a better option exists within the sponsor's offer, they will move to it.

Ok. An athlete shills and happily takes a sponsor's cheques while spray painting the product he truly loves because he likes the sponsor's money but doesn't really like their product.

That's called lying bro.

Then his sponsorship deal ends and can finally speak the truth and moves to the product he truly loves.

So these Boa athletes you were talking about, are they in the lying stage?

 

[onenerdykid]

Ok. An athlete shills and happily takes a sponsor's cheques while spray painting the product he truly loves because he likes money. Got it.

That's called lying bro.

Then his sponsorship deal ends and can finally speak the truth and moves to the product he truly loves.

So these Boa athletes you were talking about, are they in the lying stage?

I'm not justifying what they do- I never said it's what they should do, but I did say it is what happens. It's simple - if the product doesn't work, they won't use it. If our athletes didn't like the BOA, they wouldn't use it, especially when they can use the same exact boot with buckles.

If it was a BOA-only boot I was referring to, then your hypothetical would hold some water. But right now, it just doesn't.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Man, please, this is getting silly… It is just a different closure system for goddamn ski boots, not the end of the world, FFS...

Yeah Tony it's just a product I hate. Just one of a million other consumerist pieces of shit products on this planet that's clogging out landfills that I hate.

Apparently hating on "things" makes me "not very open minded".

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

It's simple - if the product doesn't work, they won't use it.

I think you're missing a few steps here and ignoring the subtlety at which an athlete would finesse a sponsorship situation for the benefit of their financial future.

They just would not not use a product. There's a bit of a timeline between jumping between sponsors where they would use a product, pretend or not, then ditch it.

I think they don't need to be nudged explicitly to use/shill a product. The money is the nudge. A company can sell duct tape tomorrow as the next best thing to seal a boot and their paid athlete will declare duct tape to be the best thing since sliced bread. You will see duct tape on their socials without the company egging them on to shill duct tape.

 

[Wasatchman]

Criticising boot fitters is a third rail in skitalk. That's a no no.

Boot fitting is an unregulated industry. There's a whole gamut of boot fitters from reputable ones to pimply 18 year olds. You can get the best or worst fit or anything in between from both depending on your "feels".

While I would agree that going to boot fitter is by no means a guarantee to get a great fit, I do think a lot of them can provide good value to the average skier. In fact, I'll bet a lot of the people who have never been to a boot fitter wouldn't even know what proper size ski boot they are.

While bootfitting is not a formally regulated industry, they do go through training and there are various formal programs like master fit.

Medicine is highly regulated and for complicated medical issues, it's not that uncommon to get disparate advice/diagnosis that can also be contradictory. And some doctors are great and other doctors not so much to put it politely.

So I wasn't really trying to criticize bootfitters broadly, but rather note that even with a good and reputable boot fitter, getting a great pair of fitting boots can still be quite the challenge. While like any profession there can be some bad bootfitters out there, I think the vast majority of average recreational skiers should get some help from a bootfitter.

 

[Wasatchman]

@Rich_Ease_3051 - I have enjoyed your posts throughout the years on Ski Talk. And like you i have my doubts whether BOA is or will be a revolutionary design for ski Boots - at least in its current form. Based on your history on SkiTalk, I am inclined to believe you're a really good dude (and a very talented and experienced skier as well).

But man, there is such a thing as beating a dead horse. You've made your point abundantly clear you don't like BOA. I don't think it's worth trying to hammer away at it anymore. Not worth it and I think more posts on your distaste for BOA is actually less at this point as far as trying to get your argument across.

It might be better to be agree to disagree at this point and let's watch it play out in the market place.

 

[KingGrump]

and a very talented and experienced skier as well

That is very generous of you. Bless your heart.
I believe your friend here stated he 'learned to carve for 7 days" when he first join the forum earlier this season. Of course that would make him an expert on all things skiing.

 

[Brian Finch]

Ok. An athlete shills and happily takes a sponsor's cheques while spray painting the product he truly loves because he likes the sponsor's money but doesn't really like their product.

That's called lying bro.

Then his sponsorship deal ends and can finally speak the truth and moves to the product he truly loves.

Lying?! No it’s called professional sport. Srsly, what planet are you living on? Bro….

There’s nothing stock about anyone’s gear at that level. Heck it’s why we go to the bootfitter.

All this BOA hate is just nutty. I think it’s a silly venture but try doing 10 push-ups & sit-ups every time you have a BOA trigger. It will help you ski any boot better.