The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[Noodler]

there is a weight aspect here, an agressive tune becomes even more agressive with weight. and a ski aspect, for a superstiff FIS ski it works out, but heavy skier + not superstiff ski and full tune no detune I find I dont like that on alot of skis, talking 0.5/3 no detune.

now add snow aspect, hard to icy conditions? usually again great, but super packed powder with lots and lots of grip some of the softer turnier skies tends to wanna really dig in when your trying to chill and hit their shortest radius, now add my 242lbs + gear and I can bend skis, and they wanna go even shorter.

on a FIS SL this doesnt really happen the same way, its more in tune, with its tune, and of course way stiffer.

I will tend to agree that a person who skis aggressive tune, no detune all day and does it will is probably a better skier, but there are other factors at play here, especially for the style of skiiing you want to do. I find I like an 88 on a lot of skis better than 87, but some of course demand that 87.

For demoing skis or new skis in general tune plays such a massive role, but for me also snowconditions vs tune, good snow can mask a bad tune.


thats my preferences...

now to my gf, she wants 0.5 or 0.75 base on everything, and 87 degrees edge angle, NO detune, just remove burrs.
Mix in a new ski with a less than perfect base and its interesting on hard surfaces to say the least, but fairly quick do discover at least.
Her favorite daily is a stöckli fis sl 155... but does not like the 157 length skis.

You've reach some conclusions for your own preferences, but I wonder if you actually reached these conclusions on skis with a verified set of edge bevels. If the skis haven't been hand-tuned by someone that has knowledge of ensuring consistent base bevels through the upturns at the tips and tails, then the conclusion that "skis need to be detuned" would be polluted by this "uncontrolled variable".

There's a small required investment for anyone interested in checking their own skis. By the Toko WC base bevel guide and the narrower DMT diamond stone that fits into it. Use a thick black marker to "paint" the base edges at the tips and tails and then take the DMT stone over those sections using the guide. If you're easily able to remove the marker in the first pass or two, then you'll know that your base bevels at the tips and tails aren't actually beveled at all. You don't need a ski bench or a vise to do this check. You can just put the ski on the floor base up and put your knee on it to stabilize it.

 

[Tony Storaro]

You've reach some conclusions for your own preferences, but I wonder if you actually reached these conclusions on skis with a verified set of edge bevels. If the skis haven't been hand-tuned by someone that has knowledge of ensuring consistent base bevels through the upturns at the tips and tails, then the conclusion that "skis need to be detuned" would be polluted by this "uncontrolled variable".

There's a small required investment for anyone interested in checking their own skis. By the Toko WC base bevel guide and the narrower DMT diamond stone that fits into it. Use a thick black marker to "paint" the base edges at the tips and tails and then take the DMT stone over those sections using the guide. If you're easily able to remove the marker in the first pass or two, then you'll know that your base bevels at the tips and tails aren't actually beveled at all. You don't need a ski bench or a vise to do this check. You can just put the ski on the floor base up and put your knee on it to stabilize it.

Man I love this place!

Absolutely nothing is left to chance!
Solid scientific stuff all the way!

 

[anders_nor]

You've reach some conclusions for your own preferences, but I wonder if you actually reached these conclusions on skis with a verified set of edge bevels. If the skis haven't been hand-tuned by someone that has knowledge of ensuring consistent base bevels through the upturns at the tips and tails, then the conclusion that "skis need to be detuned" would be polluted by this "uncontrolled variable".

There's a small required investment for anyone interested in checking their own skis. By the Toko WC base bevel guide and the narrower DMT diamond stone that fits into it. Use a thick black marker to "paint" the base edges at the tips and tails and then take the DMT stone over those sections using the guide. If you're easily able to remove the marker in the first pass or two, then you'll know that your base bevels at the tips and tails aren't actually beveled at all. You don't need a ski bench or a vise to do this check. You can just put the ski on the floor base up and put your knee on it to stabilize it.

I will be first to say I'm not a wizard at tuning skis. I'm confused by the edge vs base talk. you first say edge bevels, but then write base bevel guide?

only skitool I'm missing is the SVST bevel measurment tool. I'm very good at buying stuff.

 

[bad influence]

Mounting on my sr95. I moved up from a 177 ski to the 184 sr. I feel like I can’t get the whole ski in the snow when I turn and the front tip vibrates. Any insight on moving the binding forward a few cm to all for better control of the ski?

 

[Tony Storaro]

only skitool I'm missing is the SVST bevel measurment tool. I'm very good at buying stuff.

I am ordering this as well. Just cant resist the beauty of it.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Mounting on my sr95. I moved up from a 177 ski to the 184 sr. I feel like I can’t get the whole ski in the snow when I turn and the front tip vibrates. Any insight on moving the binding forward a few cm to all for better control of the ski?

Can you just try a more forward stance first?
When I try to ski centered on the SR95s it does not work so well as when I lean a bit forward and pressure the tips.

 

[Noodler]

I will be first to say I'm not a wizard at tuning skis. I'm confused by the edge vs base talk. you first say edge bevels, but then write base bevel guide?

only skitool I'm missing is the SVST bevel measurment tool. I'm very good at buying stuff.

The issue at hand is the base edge angle (aka bevel angle). Side edge angles don't create "hooky" feeling skis. The side edge angle will affect the "bite" that you get (more grip), but incorrect side edge angles will not make a ski bite too early (feel grabby/hooky).

So it's the amount of base edge angle that we're concerned with and in the critical areas at the tips and tails; especially where the tips and tails begin to turn upward. The more a skier is able to get a ski higher on edge, the more critical it is that the base bevel be consistent further along these upturns. Of course this also depends on how much taper there is at the tips and tails (IOW, will these parts of the ski actually contact snow in a high performance ski turn?).

 

[AmyPJ]

Montero AR sighting today at Snowbasin. The local rep had them and was headed out to teach a lesson on them. My husband wanted to steal them but it didn't work. (They're very good friends.) Very nice topsheet. Lots of Stockli on the hill today, as a matter of fact.

I have yet to find something I don't like about the Nela 88.

 

[Tom K.]

I'm very good at buying stuff.

I think you've found your club house!

 

[tomahawkins]

Do I want to read a review from an intermediate skier on a high performance ski. The answer is not only "No", but "Hell No."

You don't appreciate good comedies?

Thread idea: Unintentionally Hilarious Ski Reviews

 

[Jeronimo]

You know that the skill set of a skier has an impact on how a ski performs and is therefore a relevant part of the discussion when comparing gear, right? If I can't properly bend an FIS ski and call it bad does that make it true? It certainly makes it true for ME but not in general.

I do, but what is more helpful when in a forum section dedicated to comparing the performance of skis, is not to be told "go get lessons", its to be told the overall skill level of the person stating their opinion of the equipment in question. Unless we are establishing that only level 4 instructors should evaluate gear. Which if this is the case, I'm in the wrong part of the interwebs.

That said, your point is made.

 

[nd_1975]

Montero AR sighting today at Snowbasin. The local rep had them and was headed out to teach a lesson on them. My husband wanted to steal them but it didn't work. (They're very good friends.) Very nice topsheet. Lots of Stöckli on the hill today, as a matter of fact.

I have yet to find something I don't like about the Nela 88.

any other detail?

 

[Jeronimo]

any other detail?

I don't know if its just me but the shape does look a little different from the Laser version. When I put the two images side by side it looks like the Montero version has a less progressive sidecut. Could all be the camera though.

 

[Tricia]

I'm very good at buying stuff.

Quote of the day!

 

[Jeronimo]

any other detail?

Spoke to Rick at SkiSharp and he gave me a brief lowdown on the Montero AR/AX. Said he couldn't detect a difference from the Laser versions. He did add a caveat though, which was the day he was demoing them the conditions were about as ideal as they can get. 6-8" of fresh powder at Pico so he admitted he didn't get to use them on typical hard New England conditions.

 

[Mp29]

Would I be crazy to mount a pair of SR95 with shift bindings and use as dedicated uphill setup? I compared the Edge 100 from last year which was a Stockli touring based ski and the SR95 is actually lighter weight with a shorter turning radius at 175 vs edge 100 at 177 which I like for quicker turns in the wild. On paper seems to be a no brainer but I’m just not believing it.

 

[AmyPJ]

any other detail?

No, sorry, just got a peak at them as he was pulling them out of his vehicle.

 

[Noodler]

Would I be crazy to mount a pair of SR95 with shift bindings and use as dedicated uphill setup? I compared the Edge 100 from last year which was a Stöckli touring based ski and the SR95 is actually lighter weight with a shorter turning radius at 175 vs edge 100 at 177 which I like for quicker turns in the wild. On paper seems to be a no brainer but I’m just not believing it.

Where did you get your weight data? I don't think this is correct.

 

[Mp29]

Where did you get your weight data? I don't think this is correct.

There are several websites with data.
2020 Edge 100 177 Weight/Ski - 1780G
2020 Stormrider 95 175 Weight/Ski - 1760G

 

[Tony Storaro]

Would I be crazy to mount a pair of SR95 with shift bindings and use as dedicated uphill setup? I compared the Edge 100 from last year which was a Stöckli touring based ski and the SR95 is actually lighter weight with a shorter turning radius at 175 vs edge 100 at 177 which I like for quicker turns in the wild. On paper seems to be a no brainer but I’m just not believing it.

Originally my SR95 came with Shifts.
It worked both up and down no problems but as I liked the downhill performance so much and at the same time didn’t love the Shifts I replaced them with Wafdens.
In a hindsight if I needed them for touring mainly I’d order 175 not 184.