The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[Tony S]

For those of you who stone grind bases and/or put new structures, has anyone managed to reproduce Sockli’s original x-factoy fine bases? I had an AX and an SX in the last that both went into the process, with diferent stonegrind machines (Montana and Wintersteiger respectively), only to recover a slow ski in both cases, regardeless of base preparation after the process ie. Cleaning microhairs, impegrination, hot boxing etc… I ended up selling both pairs, and now I am afraid to put any other ski into this.… Thoughts?

find a raceplace

What anders said. You need to get a "race tune" from a shop that is well known for catering to local racers, in a place that has local racers. It will cost you more.

 

[KingGrump]

Have to get some black ones for the HF. They're often black or dark gray.

 

[tomahawkins]

That was said in jest. Sadly, I don't see anyway to make soft / wet snow as fast and not sticky as cold snow.

Under base air injection, i.e. hovercraft?

 

[Paul Lutes]

What would your edge angles be for skiing air??

 

[Tony Storaro]

Hey look here:




Is it just me or has the color changed? Damn these look mighty fine.

Ahhh the temptation is getting too much to resist, my credit card is getting exited and will leap out of the wallet like a spawning salmon once these hit the web-store, I am telling ya….

P.S. No, I am definitely not imagining that, the color changed to uniform deeper blue. Stockli obviously decided to cede the baby blue to their lil brothers from Head Let them piggyback a lil on the glory of blue SL skis. Very mature, very generous.

 

[tomahawkins]

Hey look here:




Is it just me or has the color changed? Damn these look mighty fine.

Ahhh the temptation is getting too much to resist, my credit card is getting exited and will leap out of the wallet like a spawning salmon once these hit the web-store, I am telling ya….

P.S. No, I am definitely not imagining that, the color changed to uniform deeper blue. Stockli obviously decided to cede the baby blue to their lil brothers from Head Let them piggyback a lil on the glory of blue SL skis. Very mature, very generous.

Hmm, Stockli doesn’t tap their holes. So much for Swiss craftsmanship.

 

[James]

Hmm, Stockli doesn’t tap their holes. So much for Swiss craftsmanship.

That’s a store shop. Plus we don’t know that he didn’t since it’s edited way down.

 

[tomahawkins]

That’s a store shop. Plus we don’t know that he didn’t since it’s edited way down.

I took the driver as the giveaway, but maybe not.

 

[TheArchitect]

Hey look here:




Is it just me or has the color changed? Damn these look mighty fine.

Ahhh the temptation is getting too much to resist, my credit card is getting exited and will leap out of the wallet like a spawning salmon once these hit the web-store, I am telling ya….

P.S. No, I am definitely not imagining that, the color changed to uniform deeper blue. Stockli obviously decided to cede the baby blue to their lil brothers from Head Let them piggyback a lil on the glory of blue SL skis. Very mature, very generous.

Blue's my favorite color and that blue is great looking.

 

[Peter P]

The consensus seems to be that you should get a FIS SL ski over a consumer SL ski. Whether it would be Stockli or other brand-that's entirely up to you.
Yeah, I know we are in the Stockli thread but the ski that I personally greatly desire after my Rossi FIS SL are the Atomic ones. Them nose pickers at the tips just speak to me.

Just a couple of pages back there is an excellent review comparing Laser FIS SL to Atomic FIS SL, you might want to check it. Also there are some other comparisons on this site, you might want to check these

Some thoughts on the FIS SL after skiing them this season as a major part of the quiver…

For context, I am a recovering Atomic race room ski junkie (summertime raids on WC athlete quivers / wintertime recreational skiing of said bounty with the occasional run at glory in the local Masters scene).

My primary point of reference is the 165 cm FIS Redster S9. Set-up: X20 binding / solid plate / running .5/4 bevels. I have >1M vertical ft on this set-up over the past 3 seasons.

My initial reaction to the Stöckli FIS SL in early season skiing was pure unadulterated enthusiasm. I had never skied a ski that blended so much power with so much playfulness. I stand by this impression, although as I have spent more time on the ski, there are some important nuances.

Side-cut - this ski is 2.0 mm wider in the tip, 1.5mm narrower in the waist, and 2.5 mm wider in the tail than it’s S9 counterpart. On paper, the differential in turn radius is minute at (.1m); but experientially the Stöckli’s preferred radius is MUCH shorter than the Redster. The Stöckli can snap off turns that radius-wise are unthinkable on the Redster. On the other-hand, the Stöckli is quite resistant to being skied at the occasional GS-radius turn length, which the Redster does with aplomb. This smaller radius of the Stockli is very confidence-inspiring when skiing gates, as one can arc through even the most desperate of recovery-turns.

Longitudinal Stiffness - this ski shares some heritage with the other Stöckli skis that I have sampled with regards to longitudinal stiffness, as there is a distinct differential between tip and tail stiffness with the tips being softer than the tail. This leads to an ease of turn initiation that is unique in this class of ski. This aspect makes pre-fall line engagement a breeze at surprisingly low speeds, and allows a level of precision/control in the Redster requires higher speeds and higher edge angles to replicate.

The Stöckli tails are not only comparatively stiff in relation to the tips, but on an absolute scale seem much stiffer than the Redster’s. In turn, the Stöckli delivers an extraordinary amount of power coming out of a turn, but need to be fully and rather intentionally flexed in order to work their magic. (I skied two full days until I first accessed the full strength of the tail quite by accident, and had to stop to take my heart out of my throat) In combination, this fore-aft differential in longitudinal stiffness invites a pronounced “fore-to-aft” migration of the optimal balance point on the ski during a turn. This takes some adaptation when transitioning from a ski like the Redster that seems to have a comparatively narrow and more neutral balance point; but once mastered opens up a FUN game of nuance between pressure strength and timing. This wider range of balance makes it delightful in variable snow conditions, or during ‘recovery-mode’ after badly mis-judging a cross-rut on a race course. It is particularly delightful in full-crud conditions with a firm base. The edges will hold for days underneath the crud, while the wide balance range will allows you to work though the ‘potato-sack thud’ sensation of incoming crud-chunks.

Torsional-Stiffness - If the fore-foot of the SL “lacks” comparative longitudinal-stiffness to the Redster, it is clearly “superior” in the category of torsional stiffness. In fact, it is the combination of a certain longitudinal suppleness and torsional rigidity in the fore-foot that is the hallmark of this ski, and it’s most subtle nuance. The ease of turn initiation, followed by a ‘dagger-on-ice’ edge hold that doesn’t deteriorate with pressure or speed, and is equal parts counterintuitive and mind-blowing. Something that flexes so easily shouldn’t possibly be able to hold so firmly, but it does it VERY WELL. This translates into an experience that builds confidence in high edge angles on steep terrain, and likewise in ripping lightening-fast transitions on ice. That outside- edge will be there sooner than you expect and cannot be overpowered torsionally. This aspect of the ski develops quite a “hero-complex” over time and is highly addicting.

The nuance here is that the ski rewards ‘good’ technique and punishes ‘bad’ technique. Edge engagement on the new turning ski above the fall-line is what these skis seem to be built for, while turn initiation in or after the fall-line generates a distinct ‘pumping-the-brakes’ sensation and has the tendency to scrub ALOT of speed very quickly. For me, this tendency is more pronounced in steep/icy terrain when technique begins to fall apart.

Rebound/Feedback - In sharing the heritage of the rest of the Stockli line, there is a secret in the core of the ski that is hard to describe but is evident in a certain feeling underfoot; particularly in the sensations felt when flexing and unflexing the ski. The Stöckli responds to nuances in the pressure phase of a turn (timing, speed, & angle) that are unobservable in the Redster. The active feedback from the ski during each phase of the turn creates a form of sensory-driven situational awareness that borders on black magic. The Redsters feel blunt in comparison, and when transitioning from the Stöckli to the Redster, I find myself grasping for supplemental visual and auditory cues to compensate for the lack of sensory input from the the ski.

In totality, I absolutely love the SL, and see many more pairs being added to the quiver; albeit there are rare applications where I may still occasionally reach for the Redsters.

Thanks for your great review of the Stockli FIS SL versus the Redster. I have been using Stockli FIS SL 165cm this season as my primary ski in GS Nastar. You might ask why? Because it is not a real GS course with 23-30m gates. Sometimes the gates are only 13-15m apart. You never know until you get there and I am not brining two pairs of skis. It is easier to extend the radius of a SL ski than it it is to condense the radius of a real GS ski - at least for me. The FIS SL has enough stiffness that I dont have to worry about catching an edge or the tips getting squirrely - although I have had a couple of major wipe outs when the course is closer to a real GS one and I am pushing it to the max. I also have the WRTs but am addicted to the feel of a real SL ski. The WRTs have a lil SL soul in them but don't compare to the FIS SL. I ski the course faster with Stockli FIS SL than the WRTs. I want to try another FIS SL ski next season and am looking for feedback on the competition and how they compare to Stockli. Is there another FIS SL ski that would be easier to bend than the Stockli? Would I be better off with Stockli FIS SL 160cm? If I am lazy I find myself transitioning after the fall line and being punished as a result. You say the Redster is more accomodating for late transitions?

1) Atomic
2) Fischer
3) Rossi
4) Head
5) Vockl
6) Did I miss any?

 

[Tony S]

although I have had a couple of major wipe outs when the course is closer to a real GS one and I am pushing it to the max.

If you're going to get a second ski you really should get a GS ski. It's actually dangerous to race a GS set on a slalom ski because of the consequences of sudden short-radius hookup at GS speeds.

 

[Peter P]

I already have a GS ski but as I mentioned the course is rarely a legitimate GS course. It is a hybrid. Often biased toward slalom.

I have the following skis:
1) Stockli SL FIS
2) Stockli WRT
3) Stockli Laser GS
4) Stockli SX
5) Stockli SX FIS (never used and will be selling this summer!)

 

[Tony S]

Sometimes the gates are only 13-15m apart. You never know until you get there and I am not brining two pairs of skis.

I already have a GS ski but as I mentioned the course is rarely a legitimate GS course. It is a hybrid. Often biased toward slalom.

I have the following skis:
1) Stockli SL FIS
2) Stockli WRT
3) Stockli Laser GS
4) Stockli SX
5) Stockli SX FIS (never used and will be selling this summer!)

So with that quiver I don't understand why you don't just bring two pairs of skis to the hill and just use the one that suits that night's course. Are you hitchhiking or riding a bike or something?

 

[mikes781]

Hey look here:




Is it just me or has the color changed? Damn these look mighty fine.

Ahhh the temptation is getting too much to resist, my credit card is getting exited and will leap out of the wallet like a spawning salmon once these hit the web-store, I am telling ya….

P.S. No, I am definitely not imagining that, the color changed to uniform deeper blue. Stockli obviously decided to cede the baby blue to their lil brothers from Head Let them piggyback a lil on the glory of blue SL skis. Very mature, very generous.

That blue is pretty sharp. WRT bindings on the FIS SLs correct and they are not GW compatible?

 

[KingGrump]

That blue is pretty sharp. WRT bindings on the FIS SLs correct and they are not GW compatible?

WRT/X VAR/LAB bindings are not GW compatible.

 

[mikes781]

Thanks need to see if I can swap out the soles on my Technica Mach1s before I plop down some money on those SLs.

 

[Kent]

I skied on 172cm Nela96s today on a little fresh, soft snow covering the snow base followed by heavier spring snow as the day warmed up. I loved them. I'm a guy but I am in between sizes on the SR95s. The 166cm 95s feel too short while the 175s feel too long. The Nela96s dance when I want them to and hold their edges when I want them to. They were the most confidence inducing skis I have ever been on.

 

[1Turn2Many]

I’ll tip my hat to you. It takes a real man to ski on a woman’s ski. Lesser men, if between sizes, just drink beer and eat pizza until making weight.

 

[Tony Storaro]

I’ll tip my hat to you. It takes a real man to ski on a woman’s ski.

Dunno about that really. Take for example Fischer Ranger 102FR. Everybody nuts about the pink and then the celeste ones, men and women alike.
Or GS ski-very very few of us would even consider men’s GS FIS ski, most-on women’s and junior ski.

Skis dont’ know who drives them, they respond to forces and there is absolutely nothing wrong with pink topsheets.

I mean, no biggie really…

 

[smv]

1) Atomic
2) Fischer
3) Rossi
4) Head
5) Vockl
6) Did I miss any?

I tried the Elan ACE SLX Worlcuplate FIS @165 the other day… flexier than my Stockli SL FIS @160, and at a legit dimension for races.