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3 Ski Demo and Technique Description

slow-line-fast

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lol;)


I will make an instructional video before long that builds on these videos that I've already made.



Watch this one...
Let's do an opinion poll... which jacket has the best skiing based on this video? My black jacket? My blue jacket? Or my green jacket?

Looks like all of those guys are having fun… but especially knee patches at 1:04 :ogbiggrin:
 

Sanity

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lol;)


I will make an instructional video before long that builds on these videos that I've already made.



Watch this one...
Let's do an opinion poll... which jacket has the best skiing based on this video? My black jacket? My blue jacket? Or my green jacket?


I think black jacket at Mogul Logic is the best, but those bumps might be easier.
 
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the iliad

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I have a little more time now...

Sanity:
The egos are hilarious.
:ogbiggrin:

Sanity, was there anything in particular you wanted to ask me? I can try to give better answers. You said that you wished to hear about more than just meditation etc... Let me know. I am only on a computer a few days a month right now, so you will have to be patient.


Razie:
...quite a few of the pros here could help with his piste skiing, it does at no point mean were the masters of him or that his skiing of any kind is less that way above the average... he is completely free to ignore anyone's opinion, free or paid for - frankly, I've had to do a lot of ignoring... in both categories

You're right that I might be ignoring you a little... But here I will tell you EXACTLY how to get my attention if you want me to take your carving ideas more seriously. Simultaneously I will share my point of view which appears to be different than yours... and then you will also understand why I don't know how you come to the conclusion that I posted above.

I want to reference a few groomed shots of mine, but I'm just going to tell you where to find them instead of filling this thread up with even more video of myself. I only have 7 ski videos on my channel, so these shouldn't be too difficult to find...

1) In my video titled "Skiing With Versatility Demo" look at the shot at 1:40
2) In the same video titles "Skiing With Versatility Demo" look at the shot at 1:05
3) In my video titled "Ski Music Video 1" look at the shot at 2:54

For #1 and #2 I want you to try to find me a shot of one of the skiers that you posted that is achieving that amount of deflection across the hill. If you can find a shot of any of your skiers achieving that much deflection, I will listen to what you have to say. Keep in mind, I do not mean 'skiing across the hill in between turning'. I mean a ricochet. I have always thought that power (which can be measured by deflection) is the best measure of the effectiveness and quality of a groomed turn.

I pointed out #3 for a different reason, but I still think that there is a lot of deflection in that shot. This shot is the best looking groomed shot I have ever gotten in my opinion. That is a mogul boot and a natural body position. In my ski videos the shots are not supposed to look like one another. I am purposely varying things. I think that's more interesting in regards to mogul skiing. The groomed is THE EASIEST THING TO SKI, which is why it's all you see most people do. The variations are less interesting to me. I sometimes get the feeling that some people think that every shot of my skiing is supposed to look the same as the next on whatever terrain, and if they don't look the same it means I've missed the mark or something. This is not what is going on. I am doing variations ON PURPOSE. It is to the point that I will often think of how I want to ski beforehand and then even tell my ski partner what shot I want to get and then we go get it. The ONLY shot I took this year was that way. It's in the new video that I already posted entitled "Techno Mogul Ski Variety" at 1:18. The purpose of that shot was to duplicate the style and pole plant that you see in the two shots before that where I was in the black outfit from 2012. I even told my ski partner that that's what I wanted to get on video beforehand, and as a side note, I did it on the first try. Did any of you experts here actually notice that I did that?? Or was I just messing up again because it doesn't look like some of the other shots?

I think that the worst thing that ski instructors can do is convince people that there is only one way to do things, or that people should ski with the same style all over the mountain. This makes the sport a lot more robotic and boring. Imagine a person who decides that ONLY jump turns make sense and so he jump turns in the moguls, on the groomed, on the bunny hill etc.. Then imagine that the same person convinces 50 other people to ski exactly the same way. This is not much different than the uniformity that you see in some ski schools in my opinion. Remember that the very best... in my opinion Scot Schmidt, Marcus Caston, and John Tremann were/are some of the best... the very best are the best because they are unique. At one point Tremann was referred to as "the most photographed skier in the world" (in the 90s). This is because only Tremann looked like Tremann. I have absoultey NO IDEA how to ski better than a group of skiers WHILE ALSO skiing exactly the same as them. I think that everyone here needs to do their very best to remember the words of Ron LeMaster: "There is no one, best type of turn. There are many. There is no one, best type of ski performance. There are many. There is no one, best comination of body movements. There are many.".

slow-line-fast:
Looks like all of those guys are having fun… but especially knee patches at 1:04
Thank you. Those are the 'black outfit' shots I was referring to. This is all me in the video, just in different jackets, just so you know.

Sanity:
I think black jacket at Mogul Logic is the best, but those bumps might be easier.
Sanity, I'm not sure what you mean by "Mogul Logic". That wasn't at a ski camp or anything... not that it matters.
 
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the iliad

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James:
Dude don’t become a squatty Japanese tech skier. Keep the air in the skiing.

Did I accidentally give the impression that I would? I assure you that will not ever copy the Japanese style. Or at least not all the time. I can do all those short turns etc.. I have never wanted them in my videos. My brother and I don't like the look of some of the really popular "new" styles. It's more like sometimes when we watch the sport change, we are sitting around wondering what the hell everyone is thinking. lol

Me:
For #1 and #2 I want you to try to find me a shot of one of the skiers that you posted that is achieving that amount of deflection across the hill. If you can find a shot of any of your skiers achieving that much deflection, I will listen to what you have to say. Keep in mind, I do not mean 'skiing across the hill in between turning'. I mean a ricochet. I have always thought that power (which can be measured by deflection) is the best measure of the effectiveness and quality of a groomed turn.

I think that 'deflection' is the right word. I mean the distance that I ricochet across the hill from one edge to the other... if that somehow wasn't clear.

Top Gun Maverick Kicks Ass! : )
 
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the iliad

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When I make the instructional video, or series that I'm thinking about, one thing we will do is go over all the intentional differences between many shots that are already in my videos. It seems necessary to me if the differences are not to be overlooked. If you guys want, I can go through more differences between shots in the new video... maybe not every video... I go back to work tomorrow.
 

LiquidFeet

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....I think that the worst thing that ski instructors can do is convince people that there is only one way to do things, or that people should ski with the same style all over the mountain.
....remember the words of Ron LeMaster: "There is no one, best type of turn. There are many. There is no one, best type of ski performance. There are many. There is no one, best comination of body movements. There are many."
This.
 

Sanity

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Sanity:

Sanity, I'm not sure what you mean by "Mogul Logic". That wasn't at a ski camp or anything... not that it matters.

I thought those shots were from when some of the Bumpapalooza folks were skiing at Mogul Logic:


I know I saw a video with you skiing with them on Mogulskiing.net. Aren't some of those black jacket shots from skiing with them? If not it was very similar to one of their videos which is why it got juxtaposed in my brain. Regardless, I'm thinking it's the exact same trails at Mary Jane. What trails are you on? I'm interested in comparing techniques vs. steepness, so inquiring minds do want to know. If you have anything on steep and hard packed (bordering on icy, i.e. not powder or packed powder), I'd love to see it.

Since I misplaced that one video in my brain, I probably am misplacing this too, but I swear I remember you saying one time that you don't weight shift, that you keep even pressure on the skis. Did I get that wrong? If not, I'd be interested in some elaboration, since that's contrary.... Regardless, I've heard some high level people talking about even pressure. Even if I did remember that wrong, what's your take?

Lots of videos on line in very nice powder conditions with beautifully shaped moguls. I love watching them, but there's not much I get from them anymore. I have all the fun I want to have in those conditions. I work a full time non-skiing job, so I get up to the slopes when I can, and when I can is not necessarily when the conditions are the best, so the issues for me that I want to know are technique in those conditions: hard packed moguls (icy, crusty), steep irregular bumps. In that one first person video I put up in this forum, the second half is cloudy, well below freezing, frozen slush at Mary Jane in April where it was above 50 degrees the day before. It represents the best skiing I have ever done in such conditions where I'm comfortably skiing fast and direct which has not often been the case. Not a single mogul skier was there that day. I'd love to know how other people ski it. How would the bumpapalooza folks ski it? How would you ski it? At some point the conditions will get so bad that you won't look like you do in your videos. When does that happen, and what does it end up looking like?
 
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the iliad

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Sanity:
I know I saw a video with you skiing with them on Mogulskiing.net. Aren't some of those black jacket shots from skiing with them? If not it was very similar to one of their videos which is why it got juxtaposed in my brain. Regardless, I'm thinking it's the exact same trails at Mary Jane.

I think you are kind of merging "mogul logic" with "bumpapalooza" in your mind. I think there were some years when the mogul logic camp was held in the days right before the bumpapooza. Or maybe it was the first days of the bumpapalooza. I have never seen chuck at the bumpapalooza or been at that camp. I have not exactly been a full time attendee at the bumpapalooza but several years ago I would ski with them some. They got a few shots of me. I'm not in the video that you posted, but if you search youtube for "bumpapalooza 2010" (posted by that same guy) you can see a shot of me at 1:03 in that video, and you're right, it is on the same run as the black outfit shots that are at 1:04 in my new video "Techno Mogul Ski Variety". That was also from the same year (2012), but it was not the same run. I don't have a shot of the run that they got. In MY video, the people in the background are my good friends. In the background at 1:04 is Mark, Paul, Aaron and Tamarack. Aaron and Tamarack are brothers that live in Idaho. That's why you occasionally will see skiing from Idaho in my videos. Those guys are really strong athletes. They're a little older now.... Tamarack may have at one point unofficially had the world cliff jump record. The jumps he would do were very, very unusual, almost nauseating.

I really respect Chuck Martin's skiing. Back in about 2002 I free skied with him on some days and his skiing made a big impression on me. Watching him was what gave me the idea to ski moguls in multiple different ways. It's cool because apparently he respects my skiing too. He saw my parents in a restaurant a couple of years ago and walked up them and told them "Boy is he good", referring to me : )

The bumpapalooza guys have generally treated me with dislike. What's interesting about this is that most of them treated me this way without ever actually speaking to me. I have also never argued with any of them online. So what was it based on? My skiing ability? They would scoff at me when I would wave to them and try to be friendly with them. I met Aaron because he was here for bumpapalooza and we became friends. Eventually he stopped attending their club, and I think it had something to do with how he saw them treating me... but he and one other guy were my only friends in the group. The other, Frank, actually explained to me something to the effect of that they don't like me because of something to do with my skiing ability and the fact that I don't say much when I am skiing. They didn't say much to me either and I can't keep everyone's name straight that knows my name. One night I was invited to the bumpapalooza house. Jeff (the guy who made the video you just posted, who is kind of the head of bumpapalooza) intentionally embarrassed me in front of the entire group. He ultimately, basically kicked me out of their little club there. Whatever bothered him, I had only tried to be friendly with him. That guy does seem a little strange to me... maybe jealoous... other people have suggested to me that he is jealous... why did he buy a USA outfit? And I wonder if he remembers how he told me when he was drunk about how he forced his wife to accept a second female into their relationship, or if not 'forced', his exact words were that it'd "been hell to get it to work how he wants and to get her to accept it". I don't like them and they don't like me. I have not skied with them much in the past and they never really included me. I even thought that they might purposely take their "group photo" at a moment when I wasn't there so I don't spoil the photo for the guys who hate me, or something. Some of them, not even Jeff, would noticeably actively avoid me. So anyway... I haven't skied with them in years. I skied with them some back in 2010-2012 or something. Now I actively avoid them.

Something that the internet has taught me is that if you are good at something, many people will first try to find any excuse they can to say that you're NOT so good at it... And then they will be just as likely to hate you as like you. I think something like this might be what went on with some of the bumpapalooza guys. If you want proof of what I'm saying, think about how many people still somehow decide that Tom Brady "sucks" and how many people hate him. Those people suck.

Sanity:
I'm interested in comparing techniques vs. steepness, so inquiring minds do want to know. If you have anything on steep and hard packed (bordering on icy, i.e. not powder or packed powder), I'd love to see it.

This makes me wonder if you have actually watched all of my videos. There are a whole lot of steep, non-powder mogul shots dispersed throughout my videos. I will pick a random video and describe the run and snow... let's do the new one...


The shot at 0:09 is towards the bottom of Long Haul. That is slushy snow. The shot at 0:18 is under the Sunnyside lift. That is slushy snow. The shot at 0:27 is Lower Derailer. I'd say that's pretty hard packed, but I can't stop a little snow from flying. That is not a zipperline. The shot at 0:30 is under The Prospecter. That is hard pack. The shot at 0:45 is Needles Eye. That is absolutely NOT a zipperline. The idea that I only ski in zipperlines is yet another strange thing that people like to try to assume about my skiing. The shot at 0:56 is near the top of Lower Derailer. That is hard pack and those are extremely irregular, huge moguls. Definitely not a zipperline. Those runs on that far side of Mary Jane, I believe strongly are some of the most difficult and irregular mogul runs in the world. They don't call it "The Mogul Skiing Capital of the World" for nothing. The shot at 1:00 was taken right after that previous one on Derailer. Again, those are VERY irregular, early season moguls. The shot at 1:04 is Sterling before the cat track, so it's not flat likethe rest of Sterling. That is a zipperline and probably the biggest moguls in the video. I am skiing with 'flat skis' there. Not tips down. The shot after that at 1:11 is upper Sterling. Another zipperline with big moguls. The shot at 1:18 is that same area. Like I already said, the point of that shot was to mimic the previous two. The shot at 1:28 is on Boiler. I told my ski partner that I was "going for a carvier style" before we took that shot and the next one. The next one at 1:30, theefore is also Boiler. I wouldn't say those are nice zipperlines. The shot at 1:50 is Sunnyside in slush. I think you can see that that isn't a zipperline. The shot at 2:00 is upper Sterling in a zipperline on slalom race skis. -- So... you ski there, or something? You're welcome to say "Hello" if you see me. You don't seem like a complete lunatic or anything lol ...If we get along, I might teach you for free if you video me every time I ask.

Sanity:
I swear I remember you saying one time that you don't weight shift, that you keep even pressure on the skis. Did I get that wrong? If not, I'd be interested in some elaboration

That's not exactly what I said. Outside of the moguls I certainly don't have even pressure on each ski, but I think that you are talking about mogul skiing. I know what you are referring to... I said... At speed in the moguls, I only think about 'pulling up' my feet to avoid impact and maintain smoothness. At speed it's like doing a hanging knee raise on a pull up bar. When my focus only on 'reducing pressure', it is contrary to think about pushing either foot down and therefore 'increasing' impact or pressure.

Sanity:
In that one first person video I put up in this forum, the second half is cloudy, well below freezing, frozen slush at Mary Jane in April where it was above 50 degrees the day before. It represents the best skiing I have ever done in such conditions where I'm comfortably skiing fast and direct which has not often been the case. Not a single mogul skier was there that day. I'd love to know how other people ski it. How would the bumpapalooza folks ski it? How would you ski it? At some point the conditions will get so bad that you won't look like you do in your videos. When does that happen, and what does it end up looking like?

I'm not sure which shot of yourself that you are referring to. If you'd like for me to look at it, you might need to re-post it. I don't know how many more posts I will do here this week though, just so you know.

The times I've been on frozen slush moguls lately, it has not really phased me. After the amount of practice I have had in my life, it would take some really unusual conditions to mess me up. But that doesn't mean that I am always skiing at my maximum at every moment. I ski slow a lot. I often just ski behind by ski partner. I would rather be on slalom race skis in frozen slush moguls. My brother and I did Outhouse on a frozen slush day last year. I was on my slalom race skis, and I don't think that I really messed up the whole way. The technique would be the same as usual. Maybe just a little slower than if conditions were better. On that run on outhouse, my brother messed up once, I think, telemarking, but he also didn't practice much that year.

I work a non-ski job too, by the way. I always have.

Did I say enough? lol Are you happier? : )

I want to elaborate on one thing I said earlier. When I was talking about varying my technique "on purpose", I don't necessarily mean that I can ski exactly how I want at any moment, or that I can mimic anyone perfectly at any moment. It's more that I often have an idea about what kind of shot I want to get and what it will look like, and it might take me a few tries to do it. It's more interesting for me to do different things on different days. In addition to the example I gave earlier, another example would be the slow motion groomed shots that start at 1:25 in my video entitles "Ski Music Video 2". Those shots are absolutely supposed to look that way, and you might notice that they all look different than the shot that starts at 2:11. Something similar could be said about 'all' the groomed shots in between those two times. The shot at 2:11 is more, my natural form.
 
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Sanity

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Sanity:


They got a few shots of me. I'm not in the video that you posted, but if you search youtube for "bumpapalooza 2010" (posted by that same guy) you can see a shot of me at 1:03 in that video, and you're right, it is on the same run as the black outfit shots that are at 1:04 in my new video "Techno Mogul Ski Variety".

Yes! That's it. I knew I saw it, but couldn't find it. Chuck Martin is skiing in that video too with you guys. They showed him with a spectacular crash which I thought was bad taste, though interesting.



Definitely lots of good info. Thanks. I'm sorry to hear you haven't gotten along with the Bumpapalooza crowd. Looks like you just paid back the embarrassment for better or worse.

I find it's always difficult to tell conditions from videos, and I've noticed many other people seem to have that problem as well. Therefore, it's good to get the breakdown. Still though, it's all spectacular conditions and fabulously shaped moguls to me, because I live in the East (not Northeast). It's all relative. I have to get on a plane to go to Mary Jane, though when I do get on a plane that's where I want to go. I don't get many opportunities these days with the job and family, so I'll likely not run into you, though if I did, you can rest assured that I am sanity, not insanity.

At 0:18, that's Columbine. I'm usually there in April, and I don't think I've ever had a great run down Columbine. The way it's facing the sun seems to give it the worst bumps on the mountain. So, that is good to see you crushing it. Definitely, black jacket is on the easiest bumps, and I think that's why it looks the best.

I've seen your videos throughout the years, but I haven't gone through them with a fine tooth comb, so I wasn't saying that you don't ski tough bumps. I was just saying that there are very few videos by anyone on the kind of terrain where I really need help. Where I live, there's so much water content in the snow, that when it refreezes it gets super crusty and dangerously hard, and the bump shapes are nothing like Mary Jane. I'm just looking for that standard of excellence in those bad conditions. No good mogul skiers are on the slopes on those days, and when I ask people they just say get drinks. No videos on the internet of it. It doesn't exist at Mary Jane. From 2:59 on in my video is the worst I've ever seen at Mary Jane, and it's still relatively good conditions, just because the air is so dry that the water content evaporates before it can freeze into ice, so the crust isn't so rock hard. (You can hear the frozen crust under the skis)



I hope I don't offend you with this analysis, and maybe you'll find it interesting. The first video I saw of your mogul skiing a long time ago blew me away with the speed, precision, and balance. It also struck me that your style was largely swiveling and a little squatty. It hardly matters given what you were able to accomplish, but I have noticed that your style changed over the years. Now, you're getting much more performance from the ski, much more similar to Chuck Martin's style, and he strongly advocates for the weight shift, so I was wondering if you consciously changed your style in that regard getting more pressure on the tip early to have the ski respond.
 
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the iliad

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We get wild temperature fluctuations in Colorado, so that can sometimes result in some really crazy snow conditions, but it's not most days. We definitely get some melting alternating with freezing.

It's a little hard for me to say much based on a POV video. Maybe I could say more if we were out on the hill.

Now, you're getting much more performance from the ski...

I usually ski differently on the slalom race ski than on the mogul ski. My smoothest style is what you see me do in the black outfit 2012 shots. That's with flat skis and it is the most physical effort of any method I use. Any shots you saw that were earlier than that would have probably been the same path for the skis through the moguls. This was more of a world cup style than what you see me do on the slalom race skis these days... I was just thinking this year that I might like to lower my stance again... But since I do so many different things, it is very normal that someone might like one way better than another.
 

James

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Did I accidentally give the impression that I would? I assure you that will not ever copy the Japanese style.
Hah, no. But that’s the goal for a lot of high level skiers/instructors it seems.
 

razie

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Dude don’t become a squatty Japanese tech skier. Keep the air in the skiing.
Thank you... I guess...

Hah, no. But that’s the goal for a lot of high level skiers/instructors it seems.

Not quite, it's just the best skiers in the world, not Japanese specifically. They have their own uhh sub-style. It's typical - Markojp could explain that one.


Yeah. You're right. It's definitely a problem.

Why is trying to be a better skier a problem?

Guys, I realize you try to paint these great skiers as negatively as possible, as either something unattainable or something that one does not want to attain, but seriously guys, those grapes are not that sour... most of the world wants to ski as best they can, as shown by the great skiers from the many countries that united and amalgamated their individual styles under the Projected banner... While you certainly have the right to continue being different. Some see being different as an obligation! Which is fine, too!

If you think it's weird to seemingly have a debate on what great skiing is, in the year 2022, it's because it is weird...
 
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the iliad

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The best racers do not look very much like every Japanese technical skier, in my opinion. I also don't think that the best racers necessarily look much like one another. There are contests of certain styles. A world cup mogul competition is a contest to see who can be master of one style. A Japanese "technical" competition in moguls is simply another. I have never even seen a person in Colorado that tries to look like a Japanese technical skier. This begs some thinking about what is "different" and what is "technically correct" or what is "normal" and what is "arbitrary".
 

geepers

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The best racers do not look very much like every Japanese technical skier, in my opinion. I also don't think that the best racers necessarily look much like one another. There are contests of certain styles. A world cup mogul competition is a contest to see who can be master of one style. A Japanese "technical" competition in moguls is simply another. I have never even seen a person in Colorado that tries to look like a Japanese technical skier. This begs some thinking about what is "different" and what is "technically correct" or what is "normal" and what is "arbitrary".

Maybe there's a reason that racers on hard snow don't use a Japanese style. Or rather, why the Japanese skiers evolved their particular approach. (My understanding of ski technique is still pretty much in its infancy and my ability to execute even more modest.)





Enjoy your vids - wonderful skiing - and have a theory that skiing generally looks better in real life than it does on vid. Mostly get a lot out of the skiing demo-ed by folk like Lorenz, McGlashan, Gellie, Berger, JFB, etc, 'cause they make nice edu vids explaining in detail what they are doing. Looking forward to your edu vids for the same reason.
 

jimtransition

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The best racers do not look very much like every Japanese technical skier, in my opinion. I also don't think that the best racers necessarily look much like one another. There are contests of certain styles. A world cup mogul competition is a contest to see who can be master of one style. A Japanese "technical" competition in moguls is simply another. I have never even seen a person in Colorado that tries to look like a Japanese technical skier. This begs some thinking about what is "different" and what is "technically correct" or what is "normal" and what is "arbitrary".
If you've never actually seen anyone emulating Japanese ski tech style, why do you think instructors wanting to ski that way is 'a problem'?
 
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the iliad

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geepers:
... 'cause they make nice edu vids explaining in detail what they are doing. Looking forward to your edu vids for the same reason.
Thanks. I look forward to it too. I'm getting ideas from this thread. I might even repeat some of what I've said here.

jimtransition:
If you've never actually seen anyone emulating Japanese ski tech style, why do you think instructors wanting to ski that way is 'a problem'?
One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Look to the quote I posted from Ron LeMaster for the answer to your question. It's about defined styles versus what else there is. It's about black and white thinking.
 

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