Individual Review Crosson Dissenter 78, 185, taking a chance that paid off

[GregK]

Have the 10mm piston plate and XComp bindings on my Deacon 72 Master skis. Not usually a Marker fan but seem easy to click on/out of them along with being solid and damp.

They are flat delta but the Deacon 72s have a shorter sidewall where the heel sits so you’re -1.4mm delta unless you shim. Racing kit from Marker come in a kit with a pair of 2mm shims/lifters for the toe and heel and longer screws if you used both pairs on either like I did on the heel.

 

[EricG]

@ski otter 2 - it’s hard to tell. Either one will need a X-Cell or XComp.
I’d guess it’s a 14mm? (go big, lol)
So there are the specs:
Plate height: 14 mm
Sole Length 260-362 mm
Interface Toe height = 16mm, Heel height = 14mm
World Cup Interface for all Marker X-CELL and XCOMP Bindings

I found the XComp 16 the happy medium of weight/metal/price. https://www.marker.net/en/products/bindings/race/xcomp-16/?season=172
It has a solid feel, damp, and smooth release.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Any way to tell if those are 10mm or 14mm? Would it matter?
And I think these have a heel height +2 over toe or something - maybe the reverse, toe higher, dunno.

I know those interface with XComps and X-Cells. Not sure what else. Any all mountain bindings? Excuse my ignorance.

that looks like a 10mm plate. On all my piston plate race skis I normally shim the toe +2 (IIRC that brings the delta to neutral) . The plate also takes the old Comp binding as well - the 20s are very solid - which has the same mount footprint as the X Comp. Oh and for anyone mounting markers on a piston plate, there is an issue with the recommended holes on the Marker manual. When i get soem time I will do a write up. Short answer though is when you are looking at the the manual (~p67 IIRC it shows the recommended BSL heel mount holes in 10mm increments ending with zero. Add 5mm to each of these shown in the manual to ensure sufficient forward pressure!

The other plate options to consider would be the Head/Fischer (which you could drill multiple times to play with mount, Look R22/rockerflex or the latest atomic redster plate with easy to alter Xvar binding. The latter 2 are difficult to find as plate only unless you can scavenge some from a beat up race pair. They are also virtually identical to each other, -I strongly suspect they come from the same manufacturer- and are relatively similar toe the marker piston plate in many ways

 

[EricG]

that is a 10mm plate. On all my piston plate skis I normally shim the toe +2

so your toe is actually +4 In the end?

 

[cantunamunch]

that is a 10mm plate. On all my piston plate skis I normally shim the toe +2

The other plate options to consider would be the Head/Fischer (which you could drill multiple times to play with mount, Look R22/rockerflex or the latest atomic redster plate with easy to alter Xvar binding. The latter 2 are difficult to find as plate only unless you can scavenge some from a beat up race pair. They are also virtually identical to each other, -I strongly suspect they come from the same manufacturer- and are relatively similar toe the marker piston plate in many ways

Ya know, talking of old beat race skis, it would be hipster-interesting to go with an old T-box plate and put a current Pivot on it

 

[ScotsSkier]

so your toe is actually +4 In the end?

no, the 2shims bring it to neutral

 

[GregK]

Just remeasured my 10mm plate and XComp 12 bindings and thought it was flat but second guessed that when I saw the stats of the plate being 2mm higher in the toe. The binding heel height seems to be just over 2mm higher than toe height, so just a bit of positive delta when you measure the the total of my plate and binding heights.
Then my weird ski side wall height throws me into the negative delta without shims.

 

[EricG]

no, the 2shims bring it to neutral

Are you using a different version of the binding that isn’t neutral already? or certain ski?

I thought all the current Xcomps were 15mm toe & heel and the plates are 2mm toe higher in the front.

2 + 2 isn’t um.

im going to have to go grab a set of my skis and measure now. Where is the damn micrometer??

 

[GregK]

thought all the current Xcomps were 15mm toe & heel and the plates are 2mm toe higher in the front.

Just saved you the time of measuring as I just did it above. Binding Heels around 3mm higher to offset the 2mm higher plate in the toe area. Mine bindings were 15mm toe and around 18mm heel upon a remeasure.

So about 1mm positive delta and maybe a mm difference in sidewalls on the toe would put ScotsSkier total height flat with the 2mm toe shim.
Mine would need the 2mm heel shim to get me to a .6mm positive delta.

 

[EricG]

Just saved you the time of measuring as I just did it above. Binding Heels around 3mm higher to offset the 2mm higher plate in the toe area. Mine bindings were 15mm toe and around 18mm heel upon a remeasure.

So about 1mm positive delta and maybe a mm difference in sidewalls on the toe would put ScotsSkier total height flat with the 2mm toe shim.
Mine would need the 2mm heel shim to get me to a .6mm positive delta.

Thanks. i went down to measure one, but then realized they are all still double taped and triple strapped as I just picked them up from year end service at the MMSA and I was too lazy to take them apart to get a good heel measurement.

 

[GregK]

Hard to measure them after they are mounted up with shims etc.
Way easier to measure the entire height including the ski sidewall.

 

[ski otter 2]

So what binding is Banks Gilberti using in that screen shot with the 78s?

It will be a surprise to me if I end up with Pistons and a race binding, but now possible. I'd hoped to think of a plate and binding that were not full on race ski. I have GS and SL ski/binding/plate setups for that. I wanted to take advantage of both the Line Blade side of this ski and the GS race ski side, probably not just push these towards more the race side. To me, these skis are both standout and unique, and I want to emphasize and bring out that uniqueness.

But I suppose that with a race plate, these skis will still be fairly one of a kind, so far.

 

[Tom K.]

On that note, wonder what the big deal announcement is going to be come tomorrow at noon? Hope it's worth the hype.

Also very curious, as they've removed the skis I bought from their website.

DAY 2:

Bindings @ about + 1.8 from the factory dimple (or about - 11).

Far more neutral and intuitive for me. Still, a GS feel, despite their curvy dimensions. Astounding edge power. When I switched over to my Experience 86 tis, the first few turns felt like I was on a flying saucer in comparison.

But still just an odd, hard to describe feeling from the ski. A bit inorganic. But the snow was odd early on, to say the least, so giving them another go tomorrow.

Hoping the big announcement isn't that the skis I bought were leftovers, now replaced with a version 2.0 that is the complete schizzle......

 

[ski otter 2]

Also very curious, as they've removed the skis I bought from their website.

DAY 2:

Bindings @ about + 1.8 from the factory dimple (or about - 11).

Far more neutral and intuitive for me. Still, a GS feel, despite their curvy dimensions. Astounding edge power. When I switched over to my Experience 86 tis, the first few turns felt like I was on a flying saucer in comparison.

But still just an odd, hard to describe feeling from the ski. A bit inorganic. But the snow was odd early on, to say the least, so giving them another go tomorrow.

Hoping the big announcement isn't that the skis I bought were leftovers, now replaced with a version 2.0 that is the complete schizzle......

Yikes! You are right! Both the Cloud series (non-Bode?) and the Dissenter series (Bode) are gone from their website. Holy yikes!
Same fears; Leftovers? 2.0? That'll teach me? Must be something better.

 

[Tony S]

Also very curious, as they've removed the skis I bought from their website.

DAY 2:

Bindings @ about + 1.8 from the factory dimple (or about - 11).

Far more neutral and intuitive for me. Still, a GS feel, despite their curvy dimensions. Astounding edge power. When I switched over to my Experience 86 tis, the first few turns felt like I was on a flying saucer in comparison.

But still just an odd, hard to describe feeling from the ski. A bit inorganic. But the snow was odd early on, to say the least, so giving them another go tomorrow.

Hoping the big announcement isn't that the skis I bought were leftovers, now replaced with a version 2.0 that is the complete schizzle......

Well, if there was inventory yesterday there is still inventory today. It's just a matter of how to access it. Liquidators R Us, etc.

 

[ski otter 2]

Pretty convincing sales pitch!

Having just spent four consecutive days on highly variable eastern spring snow at the New England Gathering, I have questions. First a couple of background statements.

• I have not been on the Line Blade. I know it's a bit polarizing. Some good skiers here have more or less derided it. (It's also hideous to look at. Did Eric Pollard design those topsheets? Normally I like his work.)
• I have race skis (among others) and am familiar with how to work them.

When compared with a slalom ski, how is the Dissenter better / worse when it comes to slicing through hard old plate ice that alternates with piles of sugar or other soft, heavy 3D snow? (Do you even have those conditions where you are?) What about compared with an 80-something frontside oriented all-mountain ski?

At a certain point things become too rough to arc turns, even on what might have been a groomer in the morning. At least for me this is true. Too much across-the-hill speed becomes death by pummeling. Also sometimes the surface left by the groomer simply won't allow creation of a reliable platform against which you can keep the ski bent through a whole turn. (The worst is peas / marbles / golf balls.) If you fall back on what you called "more upright all-mountain" turns, how does the Dissenter compare with the two ski types mentioned above?

There's a lot in that earlier post of yours. Sheesh. (If the Bode announcement is about a 2.0 version, then it will be back to the start, sort of. A new ski to sort out.
And it may not matter much suddenly - my answers to your earlier post, that is - since the 1.0 skis in question seem to have been disappeared.)

Anyway, on the sales pitch thing, I've sorta learned on this website not to post about skis I don't like, or that to me have problems, or that have strong "cons" as well as "pros." I tend to get shot down or disbelieved strongly when I've done that, even if borne out eventually; so I've learned to not rock the boat so much, or not post at all for such skis and stuff (since I'm not a fan of posting just a lot of positive vagueness not saying much, to avoid getting gob-smacked). Instead, I've waited until I come to a ski I can hardly stand not to shout out about from the rooftops. Thus, these days, if you get a review from me it will hopefully tend to be one of those where I can hardly contain myself with satisfaction, that I was lucky enough to stumble on that ski and be able to appreciate it still.

I also want to post something about Line Blades and the significance of that ski design, and its apparent imitators these days, but maybe in another post.

 

[ski otter 2]

Maybe it will be an announcement about snow board bindings made for skis.

 

[cantunamunch]

• I have not been on the Line Blade. I know it's a bit polarizing. Some good skiers here have more or less derided it. (It's also hideous to look at. Did Eric Pollard design those topsheets? Normally I like his work.)

How about the wimmins black & tan version?

 

[James]

Wondering if Crosson is over now.

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[cantunamunch]

Wondering if Crosson is over collector pricing now.

Makes sense.